Cho,+A+RaKWP

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 Good evening
 * Good evening **

What is your name?
 * My name is SungChul Cho and my birth year is 1931. **

You are currently married to Mrs. Lee Soon Ok, am I correct?
 * Yes, you are correct. **

And you have two children, my father and my aunt, and three grand children?
 * Correct. **

How old were you when the Korena war happened?
 * I think it was 1945, so I would have been fifteen. **

So where were you at that age?
 * I was in Hwanghe Province, which is in North Korea and I was attending Donghyeju middle school in Hyeju city North Korea, which is of course, South Korea. **

So, how did you come to South Korea?
 * Well, my father was a primary school teacher [at] that time, and he owned quite a bit of land and orchards and we, my family, happened to be a so called, in North Korea, ‘Anti-Socialist Element’, or Anti-Social Element. So that is quite of an opposition to the descendants of North Korea. I could not live there anymore, so I crossed the 38th parallel. **

Was the war already happening when you crossed [the 38th parallel]?
 * No, no, no. That was 1946. The war occurred in 1960. I crossed long before the war. **

What are your opinions on President Lee and General McArthur’s crossing of the 38th parallel, otherwise known as the Inchon Landing?
 * Well, at that time, it was a war time, so the 38th parallel did not exist. It was all broken up. But, General McArthur was a great hero who has liberated South Korea into freedom and to free market. And I think at least people of my age, respect him very much as a person who gave us big freedom and liberation. **

Then, what are your opinions on President Lee (Seung man)?
 * Ah, president Lee Seungman. He was the one who created the Republic of Korea in 1948. So he’s like a national father to us. And he had a very strong diplomatic talent in which the United Nations summoned the security council and made the UN troops to participate in the Korean war at that time. So he’s a great man. **

How did the war directly impact your life?
 * In 1960, when the war broke out, I was [ a student]. At that time, we had middle school and high school combined together- in a total of six years. So I was a senior in highschool, compared to your system. I was really studying hard to go to college, or university to go up [to a higher level]. But the war broke out and I could not go to college (university) because I had to attend the war. **

You had to attend the war as a soldier?
 * Yes, I had to attend the war. Well, [I did attended the war] not as a soldier], but this is sort of my personal life, a secret, but I was sort of part of a paramilitary activity. It is not like the conventional army, but a para military activity. Sort of training special agents and spreading them/dropping them off in North Korea. Something like that. I cannot tell you. It is classified. It is a clandestine operation, you know. **

Is that how you got to learn how to speak English?
 * At that time, to work in that organization, I had to learn English and I actually used English because I was sort of an instructor and an interpreter at that time. From that time, I learnt English. Of course we did learn English in school, too. **

Could you tell me any episodes during the war time?
 * I don’t know if you should call this an episode or not but, [I will tell you regardless]. I cannot give you the operational data but the least I can tell you is this: I trained agents or espionages in South Korea and the training period took so many days, months or so. And [after that, we would] drop them behind the line in North Korea. And some of them came back, some of them go killed. **

How did it feel to be in that position?
 * I was young and I was a real anti-communistic man and student and it was very exciting, for the training and the operation. **

What do you think about war in general?
 * War is a real tragedy. It should not happen and I saw many refugees, many orphans. It’s a real unspeakable tragedy, I should say. I don’t know, even if I tell you, whether you can understand or not. Because it was so different from current days and the past war times. So, so much difference. I do not know if you can understand. To memorise(recall) something,there are so many memories and I don’t know what to say first and last. **

Could you tell me about those memories?
 * One time, I worked at the war crime division. This is the place where you investigate, interrogate North Korean soldiers, captured soldiers, POWs (prisoners of war). We had so much data of what they did. Of what they ‘massacred’. One case I wrote, when the North Korean soldiers retreated from the South to the North, they killed so many civillians like South Korean government officials and families too. That happened in Gyunsang Province And about 20-30 people died in a ditch where North Korean soldiers either shot or knocked with stones and rocks on their heads, one by one. This, I can still remember. It is a real tragedy. This kind of thing should never happen anymore in the future. **

Could you tell me one more memory?
 * Well, one time,before I went into the para military activity, I was in the front line working with the Canadian soldiers. One time I saw, when a truck load of soldiers were retreating and a North Korean bomb hit the truck, 4-5 of the soldiers just scattered. All of their flesh scattered all over. I saw that one time. Anyway, I, as a Korea, for now, must appreciate all those United Nations forces including the United States army who had sacrificed their young lives to fight for freedom and peace in South Korea. **

What do you think about the new ruler of DPRK, Kim Jeong un?
 * I don’t know. I don’t know him. He’s too young and he doesnt have any politcal background as a politician or as a political carrier. He doesn’t have anything. I do not know really. **

There are currently three presidential main candidates running for presidency in Korea. So, if elected do you think any of the three candidates will work on the relationship between North Korea and South Korea? If you recall a few years ago, there had been the Chunanham incident. How do you feel about that?
 * I think all of them would want to build a road to talk with the North Korean leader. But I do not know how they will do it. And even if they desire whether it would be accepted by the North Korean leader or not, I don’t know. **
 * Well, it was a nefarious act really. It doesn’t make sense at all. Trying to destruct South Korea. I don’t know. I think they are a bunch of warmongers really. They want to fight. I don’t know how they will do that. But I think the North Koreans say that they want ‘peace and freedom’, but their concepts of peace and freedom is different from what we call peace and freedom. That is the problem. There is a big difference. But people in South Korea, some people do not realise that. The definition of peace and freedom claimed by South Korea and the peace and freedom that we want is different.**

안녕하세요 Hello

이름이 어떻게 되세요? What is your name? 올해 연세가 어떻게 되세요? How old are you this year?
 * 이순옥이요 **
 * Lee Soon Ok. **
 * 77세요. **
 * 77 years old. **

현재 할아버지 조자 성자 철자 님이랑 결혼하셨고 아들 한분 딸 한분 남매와 두명의 손녀딸 한명의 손자가 있으시죠? You are currently married to Mr. Cho Sungchul and have two children, one son and one daughter, two granddaughters and one grandson, am I right?

**Yes**.
 * 네. **

육이오 전쟁이 시작되었을때 나이가 어떻게 되셨나요? How old were you when the Korean War took place?
 * 육이오때가..열다섯살. **
 * The Korean war... I was fifteen. **

그때 어디계셨나요? Where were you at that time?
 * 백천온천. 그게 지금 황해도 지금 연백인데 그때는 지금 남북이 갈라졌기때문에 거기가 이남이었었는데 지금은 이북땅이 되었어. 그래서 내가 가고 싶어도 못가는곳이야. **
 * I was at BaekchunOnchun. That is located in the Yunbaek plateau of Hwanghe Province. Before the war, it had been South Korea’s land but now it has become of the North. It is a place that I cannot go even if I wanted to. **

할머니 고향이 북한이신데 어떻게 할머니 혼자 내려오시게 되었나요? Your hometown is North Korea, but how did you end up coming down to the South alone?
 * 내려오게 된게 아니고 언니네가 서울에서 살았으니까 또 큰집도 있고 다 있으니까 왔다갔다 놀러 겨울방학때 왔다가 일사후태가 일사 전쟁이 난거지 육이오후에. 그때 막혀서 못간거지. 그때 이북이된거야. 38선이 그때. **
 * I did not ‘end up’ coming to the South, but my cousin lived in Seoul and so did my paternal relatives. I usually went back and forth during the winter holidays until 1.4 retreat after the 6.25 battle. I was blocked from returning back and that was when BaekchunOnchun became part of North Korea and when the 38th parallel was drawn. **

그럼 전쟁때에는 어디계셨나요? Where were you during the war?
 * 전쟁때 피난을 나갔지. 충청남도 공주로. 그때 거기 나가니까 우리는 고생은 안했어. 형부친구네가 본토박이로 잘살고있더라고. 그래서 거기같이가가지고 거기서 살다가 나중에 수복되서 서울로 다시 올라왔지. 그니까 그렇게 고생은 안했어. 다른사람들은 고생을 전쟁때 엄청많이했고 먹는것도 제대로 못먹고했는데 그래도 거기가서 고생은 안하고 잘있다가 왔지. **
 * I was a refugee at South Choongchung Province, Gongjoo. When we arrived there, we did not struggle like others. My brother in law’s friend had already been living there and life was pretty easy for us. Later on, we claimed back our property and returned back to Seoul. As I said earlier, we did not need to struggle. I heard others had hard times and could not even eat properly, but that had fortunately not been the case for me. **

그럼 이승만대통령에대해서 어떻게 생각하세요? How do you think about President Lee Seungman?


 * 이승만대통령은 우리 최초의 대통령이고 인텔이고. 또 그분을 원망하거나 그런건 없지. 근데 얼마 대통령을 못해가지고 전쟁이 났기때문에 그게좀 아쉬울뿐이지. **
 * President Lee was the first president of Korea and had been an intellectual. I do not blame him for anything. I am just sorry that he could not be the president for long because of the war. **

그럼 맥아더 장군에 대해서는 어떻게 생각하세요? Then what are your opinions on General McArthur?
 * 맥아더 장군까지는 내가 잘모르지. 그러나 좋은사람이라는건 인천상륙작전때 그사람이 했기때문에. 그래서 우리가 잘살고있는거가 그사람덕이라고도 한쪽으로도 할수가있지. 인천상륙작전이 좀 큰거잖아. 그사람이 아니었으면 빨갱이 다된거아니야? 그사람 참 고맙게 생각해 뭘 모르긴해도. **
 * I do not know General McArthur that well. However, I know that he was a good man because he conducted the landing at Port Inchon. Perhaps he is one of the reasons to why we are living a prosperous life now. The landing at Port Inchon was a great contribution. If not for him, wouldn’t we all have been commies(communists)? Though I do not know much, I am very grateful for that man. **

통일에 대해서는 어떻게 생각하세요? What do you think about reunification?
 * 통일은 누구나 다 바램이있는거지. 물어볼 필요도 없지않아? 통일이 되야 우리나라가 잘살고 부모형제가 만날수도있고 그건 원하는바고 또 앞으로 그렇게 될때까지 살런지 그것도 의문이고. **
 * Reunification is a dream that everyone wishes. I mean is it necessary to even ask? Reunification will make our country a better place to live and we will be able to meet long lost siblings and parents. That is what I want, but I do not know I will live to see the day of reunification. **

거기 계신분들이 그립지는 않으세요? Do you not miss your family up North?
 * 그립지. 엄마 아버지 동생.있지. 그리운데 못보지. **
 * I do miss them. My mum, father, brother. I miss them all, but I cannot see them. **

최근에 천안함 사건에대해서 어떻게 생각하세요? 북한이랑 우리랑 사이가 안좋은데.. What do you think about the Chunanham incident? Our relationship with North Korea is not that great.
 * 그거에대해서는 참...참...뭐라고 내가 얘기해야될지모를정도지. 다 같은 국민들인데 그런일이 있어서는 안된다고 보는데..나는 육이오를 겪었기때문에 그런일이 또 생길까봐 걱정이야. 북한에서 좀 자제를했으면 좋겠어. 그런데 그사람들이 자기네 마음대로 하는거지.내가 원하는대로 해주는건아니지만. 하여튼 여러분들이 전쟁이안일어나게 기도들 했으면 좋겠어. 전쟁이라는건 비극적이고 그때 당시 너네가 잘 몰라서 그렇지 거의 다 그지들이었어. 요새 애들은 몰라가지고 밥 없으면 라면이라도 끓어먹지 [그러는데] 라면이그때 어디있었어. 그리고 미국사람 한명 나타나면 그지들 깡통 빙 둘러서 초콜렛 달라고. 그런시절이있었다고 우리가. 집이 이런집이 어딨냐. 형편없었지. 근데 그것을 모르고 지절로 다 잘났고 지절로 다 나라 세운줄아는데 그건 아니야. 비참한적이있었다고. **
 * About that, I really do not know what I should say. We are all the same people and I feel it is wrong for things like that to happen. Especially because I have experienced the Korean War, I am concerned something like that will happen again. I hope the North would retrain themselves. But they do whatever they want to do. I understand that they do not do what I want, but still. Anyway, I hope many will pray that war will not happen. War is tragic. You may not know it, but Korea was full of beggars. Kids these days say, “why not eat Ramen when you don’t have rice?”, but we did not even have Ramen. When a single American would appear, a crowd of beggars would surround him with their cans craving for chocolate. There had been times like that. For us. We did not always live in fancy houses like these. It was terrible. People these days say that they are go great and had made the nation stronger solely by themselves without knowing those times, but no. It was truly aweful **** . **

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 The interview with my grandparents had certainly been an original experience. I had not spoken to them for such a long time and certainly had not heard their sides of stories. It was new for me to listen to their own experiences and their opinions on a subject that I had known differently from books and the internet. To me, one of the most shocking things I have learnt through this interview was the fact that my grandfather had been so directly connected to the Korean War. He does not seem like a man from war and he had never mentioned anything about it until that moment. The fact that he had taken a considerably high position in the military as a trainer of secret agents intrigued me greatly. I had not a clue that they even had a ‘spy system’ during the Korean War, let alone the fact that my grandfather was involved in it. It had also been interesting to hear his ‘memories’ from war. His telling of both of those memories was enough for me to realize that war is truly never the right way of resolving a conflict.

One thing that I did not agree with my grandparents was their attitude towards President Lee Seungman. From my readings and studies, I had thought of President Lee to be stubborn and irresponsible. My opinions on him had not been positive for he had urged General McArthur to cross the 38th parallel with the UN troops and did not sign the cease-fire agreement because he did not give up on the notion of reunification. If not for him, I believe Korea would be in the same place that it is in without as many human losses from the war. However, both of my grandparents unanimously praised him for leaving Korea with peace and freedom. Perhaps it is because they too, however improbable, hope for reunification too. To them President Lee had been like a national hero and that seemed.

The interview provides experiences that vary from the witnessing of gory death to a rather stable refugee life. It also includes the opinions of the South Korean leader when the war broke out from citizens who lived through the experience. The interview is a valuable source for understanding the Korean War from different perspectives.